Tulpa.info - metaphysics

Niiice lol

4:07 AM

the biggest risk to my goal, as things currently stand, is that I might decide that it was silly and pursue a different goal.

Btw this will no longer seem like a risk to you once you're free from unhappiness ;P

4:07 AM

(But you may also no longer feel the need to know that your goal will be worked on post your death) (edited)

just because it's a risk doesn't mean that I am worried about it

Fair enough!

perhaps "opportunity for my goal to fail" would be more neutral language

Yeah, although in fairness I was also being cheeky again XP

Considering your work is of the "know it when I see it" type, would you even notice if your goal changed?

4:23 AM

In the "this seems silly now and I should do something different" scenario (edited)

yeah

Heh I see

Breloomancer

"there is no such thing as absolute correctness" would imply that that statement itself is not absolutely correct, that perhaps there is some absolute correctness I think that it can be easy to assume that because all of us live in subjective reality there is no such thing as objective reality; that because we can't be objectively correct, that objective correctness is impossible. I don't see any reason why it couldn't exist theoretically at least

I actually agree breloo

5:20 AM

Our perceptions are our brains best approximations of the unimaginable complexity that lies beyond us

1

5:21 AM

It's because of that limitation that all of us live in this "subjective reality" which is basically just our best approximation of what reality actually is

5:21 AM

There is an objective reality out there in the ether, it's just almost impossible to nail down completely. You can only be closer, or further from it

It just feels pointless to even conceptualize that to me, since I don't think the Totality could be known from "within"

6:22 AM

And as I said, even then you'll have to distinguish whether you're talking about the state of Totality right now, or all of space across all of time

6:23 AM

We can't even predict how quantum particles are gonna change from one moment to the next, much less infer how a select sliver of space 729,541,336 miles away looked like 11,547,345,889 years ago

No, I can never know the totality, but I can feel that it's out there lol (edited)

Sure, but then "there is such a thing as absolute correctness" is a non sequitur

?

Lula! | 👻

I am trying to make/assign each of us sigils! Me at least, but hopefully everybody.

I lost mine, don't remember what they look like anymore, but I remember gettin some good use out of them when I practiced more

Why does a metaphysics channel exist

Anyone with Phd here ?

DeathPrism

Anyone with Phd here ?

Sorry. Samuel Veissière is not on the server

Anyways, I figured I'd try to get back into witchy stuff lately

12:56 PM

I know it's probably not all that real

12:57 PM

But there's something satisfying about it

12:57 PM

It feels like it helps give me some kind of grounding

Deleted User

But there's something satisfying about it

there really is something satisfying about it

Deleted User

What did I miss this time?

Also headmates having better eyesight and different allergies, and curing yourself with belief. (edited)

i don't know about alergies and eyesight in tulpas but i know it's in did but i don't see why it shouldn't be the case for tulpas as well

2:51 PM

but i would only consider potential curing only with the things that can have psychogenic grounds

Practical aspects of ways of thinking A feeling of certainty can be kept by being certain about your opinions, even if they are incorrect. This is unintelligent, and is discussed no more in this post. Having ideas, and still taking on more ideas, and changing the ideas that are treated as most likely to be correct, or most correct. Intelligent. Two different versions given below, which may be the same for practical purposes other than magical ones. Theosophy: Belief in a single truth. Devotion to the truth. Conviction in the idea that you shall eventually become clairvoyant. Other than that, instead of having beliefs about specific things, remaining "in the question". When you change your mind on a matter, you are not changing any belief, you are adding to your thoughts and going by another non-belief provisional conclusion. This is said to avoid the throat's lotus flower being malformed, harming its clairvoyant function. Having to change a belief after finding out it is wrong is said to harm it. ~~deleted~~ Kamiko: Belief that there is no single truth. Despite this, conviction that you can, for instance, summon demons. ~~When you change your mind on something, you are replacing one belief with another (at least sometimes).~~ This is said to strengthen one's worldview. (sentence deleted) PS there's also New Age Mysticism: Maybe something like sometimes lacking belief to avoid being magically limited by those beliefs. PS3 or belief only in things you know from experience. PS2 corrected Covenant of the Shattered to Kamiko PS3 crossed through something in case it was an assumption (edited)

Deleted User

It feels like it helps give me some kind of grounding

I get that!

And kind of a focus in a way.

The Covenant does not believe that there is no single truth. Nor does it believe that there is one. That question is never addressed within the paths teachings. That is Kamikos' personal view. Please do not conflate the two when they never told you what their path concerns itself with.

11:00 PM

@anon

*Kamiko's

The real reason we fear death is because it will get in the way of all the pleasure we believe we need to experience. ~

Oh no, you brought up the fear of death argument. I used to not be afraid of death, but after a vow to not commit suicide and some healing later, I thought about the idea of not existing and it scared the shit out of me. I felt pretty embarrassed about that, and I think now I'm more afraid I'll experience pain while dying than I am of death itself (or I'm in denial and I'm bullshitting myself). I don't know if it was fear of not experiencing pleasure but instead the fear I will never be able to experience anything ever again.

I think of death as an ascension process. I don't fear death for death comes to all things living.

I just don't want to die because I still want to do a lot of things.

Lula! | 👻

I just don't want to die because I still want to do a lot of things.

Yeah, as I said...

6:29 AM

Whenever I say "pleasure", I don't necessarily mean intense pleasure like traveling the world, getting married, eating at a 5-star restaurant etc. The life experience is always pleasant, painful, or both. We tend to believe that it's only "complete"/fulfilled if we get a certain amount of the former (edited)

Unfastened Belts

Whenever I say "pleasure", I don't necessarily mean intense pleasure like traveling the world, getting married, eating at a 5-star restaurant etc. The life experience is always pleasant, painful, or both. We tend to believe that it's only "complete"/fulfilled if we get a certain amount of the former (edited)

Well, I mean, I haven't lived very long and it would be silly if I died before even really doing anything.

Lets say you knew that the rest of your life is gonna be filled with pain. Would you still fear death, or is the real fear about the lack of pleasure?

7:10 AM

Hmm dark topic, sorry lol

Neither really, I would like my life to have a point?

Like I'm not worried about suffering or whatever because I'd be dead, I would just rather not die early if I have a say, lol

Here's something pretty cool in my opinion. From Wikipedia:

Shikigami are conjured beings, made alive through a complex conjuring ceremony. Their power is connected to the spiritual force of their master, where if the invoker is well introduced and has much experience, their shiki can possess animals and even people and manipulate them, but if the invoker is careless, their shikigami may get out of control in time, gaining its own will and consciousness and can even raid its own master and kill them in revenge. Usually shikigami are conjured to exercise risky orders for their masters, such as spying, stealing and enemy tracking. Shikigami are said to be invisible most of the time, but they can be made visible by binding them into small, folded and artfully cut paper manikins. There are also shikigami that can show themselves as animals.

In the Izanagi-ryu (Japanese: いざなぎ流) folk religion, the most elite onmyōji could also conjure an exceptionally powerful type of shikigami called a shikiōji (Japanese: 式王子) to ward off disasters or demons that cause sickness. Regular mystics could not attempt to summon it without risking losing control of it due to its oni-like nature.

Sounds like Tibetan tulpas. I wonder where else this practice has gone to.

Lula! | 👻

Like I'm not worried about suffering or whatever because I'd be dead, I would just rather not die early if I have a say, lol

Thats exactly what Im saying. We're not really afraid of death, we're afraid of missing out on all the experiences we want to have, or as you said on our life "having a point". Being convinced that our life is pointless if it doesnt go our way

3:00 PM

So fear of death is essentially expectation. "If X, Y and Z dont happen, my life is pointless"

3:06 PM

We dont necessarily have an idea of what exactly X, Y and Z need to be, except that it should be pleasant (or "meaningful") rather than painful

3:07 PM

Although some people do have very specific goals they feel they need to achieve

I have a goal like that. I would be disappointed if I didn't make significant progress on my math project, but at the same time it's unreasonable to think I will finish it

You wouldn't really be disappointed though, because you'd be dead. It's suffering that exists right now in the form of expectation

If our fear of death is to dissolve, there has to be a recognition that none of the content of the life experience can ever provide lasting fulfillment/"meaning"

Unfastened Belts

Thats exactly what Im saying. We're not really afraid of death, we're afraid of missing out on all the experiences we want to have, or as you said on our life "having a point". Being convinced that our life is pointless if it doesnt go our way

I'm not afraid of death I don't think, I just don't want to.

I think we're on the same page lady.

Well hey, then great :)

4:21 PM

I definitely have some fear of "death" (missing out)

4:22 PM

Even though part of me recognizes that the content of the experience can't provide lasting satisfaction, another part of me still craves pleasure like there's no tomorrow

anon

Here's something pretty cool in my opinion. From Wikipedia:

Shikigami are conjured beings, made alive through a complex conjuring ceremony. Their power is connected to the spiritual force of their master, where if the invoker is well introduced and has much experience, their shiki can possess animals and even people and manipulate them, but if the invoker is careless, their shikigami may get out of control in time, gaining its own will and consciousness and can even raid its own master and kill them in revenge. Usually shikigami are conjured to exercise risky orders for their masters, such as spying, stealing and enemy tracking. Shikigami are said to be invisible most of the time, but they can be made visible by binding them into small, folded and artfully cut paper manikins. There are also shikigami that can show themselves as animals.

In the Izanagi-ryu (Japanese: いざなぎ流) folk religion, the most elite onmyōji could also conjure an exceptionally powerful type of shikigami called a shikiōji (Japanese: 式王子) to ward off disasters or demons that cause sickness. Regular mystics could not attempt to summon it without risking losing control of it due to its oni-like nature.

This sounds SUPER cool! And kind of like what I am trying to do, I think?

Unfastened Belts

Even though part of me recognizes that the content of the experience can't provide lasting satisfaction, another part of me still craves pleasure like there's no tomorrow

I mean pleasure is still better than not, the key is just taking what you get and knowing it's impossible to be all pleasure anyway, right?

In theory yes :p But I obsess over it constantly

Have you ever tried acting like you're already there, and just seeing if it doesn't happen or get closer?

Yeah, all the time. Usually works for a few seconds haha

Ahhhh, okay.

4:27 PM

What do you think you are getting stuck on?

Part of me still believing fervently that it can find satisfaction in circumstance

Why won't that part calm down? Have you tried reasoning with that part like you would if it was someone else?

All the time. It wont calm down because it hasnt been proven wrong enough yet, and because I havent experienced the sense of fulfillment that comes from just "resting in being", that quiet place thats described as being at our core

4:34 PM

Its so hard to tear myself away from my phone and meditate

4:34 PM

The quick fix feels so much easier, even if I can see that it doesnt really work

4:35 PM

When Im home alone, why would I meditate if I finally have time to give myself to all the pleasures I keep fantasizing about at work?

4:37 PM

(All the while feeling guilty about giving myself to those pleasures, worrying about the lack of pleasure when Im no longer home alone, etc)

Well on getting away from your phone and meditating, I think I know something that might help?

Shoot!

So like it is easier for me to take time to meditate than for Lily. But I figured out early on that that stuff is more important to me than to Lily because I value a clean mind, keeping my focus and wants small and just not being so busy with everything. So I kind of associate that not wanting to meditate early on with Lily, and her resistance to it and wanting to do other things. So then it was a question of grounding myself too, of pushing her out and being present with just me and having her quiet down the things that she wants to do.

4:44 PM

So does that make any sense? It kind of became both a way of making myself want and determined more to meditate, and of grounding and separating myself at the same time. Two birds, one stone!

4:44 PM

I know Shake wants to pursue that same thing though, so I don't know if it would work in your case?

Hahaha nice

But I mean, Lily values meditating too. Just not ENOUGH to do it much.

Hahaha

4:45 PM

Yeah no real difference between Shake and I on that #fakeplural

4:46 PM

Okokok I wont look at my phone anymore until Im at work!! (On the bus currently)

There are apps that restrict access to your phone during certain times.

Unfastened Belts

Yeah no real difference between Shake and I on that #fakeplural

I know, but that is kind of what I am saying, if you decide it's more important to you than the other things that Shake thinks are important to you, then you can maybe make more of a separation between you and him and actually start doing it at the same time. Enjoy your bus ride Marissa.

Oh haha gotcha

I'm not sure if I want to believe in God or not, Gray and Chrome's bad experiences make me uncomfortable with the idea of looking into it

4:39 PM

I'm sorry if I came across as insulting, that was not my intention

A long kiss goodnight

I'm not sure if I want to believe in God or not, Gray and Chrome's bad experiences make me uncomfortable with the idea of looking into it

what bad experiences did they have? (edited)

Gray has felt very confused on how to communicate with God, and he accidentally created Chrome in the process. Chrome tried to show Gray God was someone he could repair his trust with, but after one last attempt to "transform" into God he accidentally turned into an intrusive thought that sabotaged any progress Chrome made. That on top of Gray's insecurity with God helping him in the past and Gray/Chrome both having a hard time accepting Christianity's inconsistencies. Chrome has realized Gray's view of the Christian God is just a criticism of Christianity and it's probably best to embrace a different approach to God. Gray already believes in this concept of Gaea, I'm not sure where Chrome is going to move forward.

what inconsistencies are they struggling or had struggled with? (edited)

A big part of it is political, but I don't want to get into that. Chrome found it confusing there was an expected way to pray but it's not really written anywhere. I vaguely remember hearing from somewhere asking about how you pray is a discouraged conversation. I also struggle with the idea people who do horrible things say they are justified in doing so because of Christianity or the inconsistency where people who are believers still die of natural disasters like Coronavirus anyway. If God/nature kills believers, why is that not acknowledged as a possibility? The biggest one is personal; When I felt hopeless and reaching out to God felt more like a mistake than something that helped. Trying to embrace Christianity lead to more stress and suffering than rejecting it.

So like to clarify, experientially I still suffer from a deep-seated belief that people are separate independent doer entities. However intellectually, it baffles me that people, including myself, believe in personal agency. Even if you believe that the body's movements are controlled by your thoughts, in what sense can you believe that there is a "me" pilot ("ego") creating the thoughts? Thoughts are objects in the life experience, this is a classical advaita concept. There are physical objects, such as your body and the world, emotional objects like joy, love, sadness, anger, and there are thought objects, like thoughts and headmates and so on. All of them arise as part of a life experience arising in impersonal consciousness. Like, if you're arguing agency, are you arguing that you wake up in the morning and plan out all of your thoughts for the day? Or do you plan them two seconds ahead? Do you decide the direction of your thoughts? If yes, what are you going to think about in five seconds from now? There is no "me" that exists and controls the thoughts. The only "I/me/mine" that exists is the word that arises in "our" thought narrative about the circumstantial aspect of the life experience "witnessed" by consciousness (formless awareness + the impersonal sense of existing). @Calyra 👻 (edited)

5:07 AM

@Koi @Deleted User

5:07 AM

;P

Weather true or not that's how i've come to see it. That the ego is but an illusion.

5:12 AM

Explained better than I could.